Anonymous #1 4w

Are those men the problem? Were they misogynistic prior to your conversation with them?

-1

Anonymous #2 4w

But all the men I’ve discussed the concept of man hating and where it comes from understand exactly where it comes from. My bf was judging a dude who was trying to mansplain why women shouldn’t choose the bear

12

Anonymous #2 4w

Did the judging him help him empathize with you and change his mind? Or are they just a lost cause?

0

Anonymous OP 4w

We judged privately. None of us is gonna bother with a man like that

14

Anonymous #2 4w

But I thought to demolish the patriarchy, we had to call out the men who are supporting patriarchal structures?

1

Anonymous #2 4w

They need to help their damn selves. I stick to men who already know better. The rest aren’t worth my mental energy and physical safety. If they can’t understand why some women feel the way they do, don’t understand the message of the man bear thing etc etc they probably aren’t intelligent or interesting enough to be in my life anywya

14

Anonymous OP 4w

Calling out men is great but I’m not gonna go up to some strange and tell him he’s an idiot

10

Anonymous OP 4w

There are subtleties to this. 1. Not if it threatens our safety (usually does) and 2. If they aren’t open to the idea of hearing our side, they’re not going to be receptive of whatever we say anyways

7

Anonymous #2 4w

Which they won't do themselves. So whose job is it to fix them? Because if nobody does, they'll fester, increase in numbers, and become a worse problem over time, won't they? And what if that sect of men garners enough political power to begin enacting policies that undermine equality? Look at the podcasters and their following. They're only growing. Isn't there greater misogyny today in culture than there was 10 years ago? Whose job is it to fight back?

1

Anonymous #3 4w

It’s the job of good men and the men who suck to realize they need to change. The best way for women to “fix” these men is to make it clear they get none of our company until they do

6

Anonymous #2 4w

Sorry that was meant for op

4

Anonymous #2 4w

Has that been an effective strategy so far? Have you observed any men to change after they've been shunned from relationships or provided any of the "man hating" messaging?

0

Anonymous OP 4w

Like my male friends will challenge and teach other guys in appropriate settings. It’s not my job though. I have to deal with sexism daily not my responsibility to be a benevolent educator. I’ll do it if it’s safe and possible but often it’s not. Men like that just need to be shunned by women, I wish we did a better job doing it. Let them fail out of society. Plenty of good men know better and are more successful anyway.

14

Anonymous #4 4w

I've had success in convincing some of my man friends who are against the "man hating" ideologies of the struggles that women face and how they should adapt. It wasn't by telling them men are pigs. It was by emphatically sharing with them the shit that women have to put up with from evil men. They still don't subscribe to "man hating" and will always feel it's more damaging than helpful to attack men as a group. I made progress by removing ad hominems entirely and working their empathy.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

Those kinds of men don’t listen to anything women have to say so there’s really no point in trying to be their parent and teach them the right things. There are other men who are mature enough to understand the problem and speak up about it to other men

11

Anonymous #2 4w

But are they failing out of society? Aren't they succeeding in society? I feel like it's having the reverse effect - look at Andrew Tate and his kin. I feel like they are massive and only growing in following, especially from disenchanted young men who are told they're pigs on a constant basis.

1

Anonymous #1 4w

Out of the countless misogynists I’ve tried to have genuine conversations with about the struggles women face and how their misogyny impacts other people, I’ve had maybe 1-2 actually change their minds, or at least say they were trying to

16

Anonymous OP 4w

Oh please. I’m glad it worked for you but I used to have that attitude. I tried having empathetic conversations about what we women were experiencing. It usually ended with me being blamed or insulted or threatened. The good men who listen already know, the ones who don’t don’t care what I or any other woman has to say

15

Anonymous OP 4w

A lot of them are. Most followers of Andrew Tate are not exactly super active in society. Half of them never leave their damn basements

7

Anonymous #2 4w

Well yeah, if you put in effort to be benevolent and still be shut down, I agree that you won't be the one to change their mind. But at least you tried doing it right. I just have seen ZERO evidence that shaming and attacking and shunning these men is having the expected results. I fear that it's just causing them to become more disenchanted and grow in numbers. And if they approach a critical mass, that's quite literally dangerous for society and especially women.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

Shunning them may not make them better but it makes my life better. I don’t have any responsibility or obligation to deal with sexists.

13

Anonymous #2 4w

Didn't they put Trump in power? Thinking of the young men demographic in the '24 election. Aren't you worried that shunning them will activate greater resentment and pave way for greater waves of conservativism that chip away at women's equality (far beyond Roe v. Wade)? I agree it's not your job to fix men. But do you feel like telling men they're pigs, even the ones who are by your side and would otherwise fight on your behalf, is having any positive effect?

1

Anonymous OP 4w

I don’t tell the men who are by my side they are pigs. Just the ones who are

16

Anonymous #2 4w

And the men on my side would never turn to be like that no matter what anyway

9

Anonymous #2 4w

Has that worked?

1

Anonymous OP 4w

Why is it the job of those who have been harmed to put in the effort. I’ve tried and failed to help more than 7 guys on here. I gave them personal experience, studies, antidotes from other men. And they didn’t care. They insulted me, harassed me. Why the hell would I spend my valuable time trying to help someone who doesn’t want it. If someone wants help they will come and ask for it. They cannot be forced.

8

Anonymous strawberry_hair 4w

It's not your job to do anything. As a guy, I do feel like it's my job to try to convince these dudes to stop being fucking assholes. I won't change everyone's mind. But the men are pigs messaging makes even me feel hurt, as someone who's genuinely trying to be a good ally. It's making our jobs harder because it makes (some of) us feel like trash regardless and alienates the idiots even further. I've struggled with self-worth issues and suicidality my entire adult life, so it hurts.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

Do you understand though. Why we talk like that? No it’s not that all men are pigs, but we have been raised to assume for our own safety they are. My mom didn’t teach me “some men are good” she taught me “if you get lost at the store avoid all men at all costs” we have to be careful, we feel the strain like it IS every man. And idk my friends all get it. I agree the “all men” messaging isn’t necessary helpful or productive, but it’s rly hard to take the time to police our language to kiss men’s

6

Anonymous #2 4w

Asses when a lot of times it ends up feeling like it is all men

3

Anonymous OP 4w

I’ve tried convincing them. But someone who believes that isn’t going to listen to women anyways. That’s why you should be the one to take responsibility and try and do what we can’t. Which is convince them. I never called men pigs. I never called any man names or anything. But that doesn’t really matter. Because you’ll get called names anyways. I lost track of how many people I had to block because they were antisemitic, or sexist or homophobic- not everyone will be nice to you.

5

Anonymous strawberry_hair 4w

That doesn’t mean it’s good to be call these things, of course it’s not. But it hasn’t stopped me and it shouldn’t stop you.

1

Anonymous OP 4w

How do you think we feel when men are constantly calling women names and degrading/harassing/assaulting them? The idiots are alienating themselves by not wanting to change their beliefs, they find comfort in misogyny. I don’t know why men find women’s responses to misogyny to be more offensive than the misogyny that started it all

8

Anonymous #7 4w

It’s always about sex with you guys isn’t it

6

Not all of them, but they’re not gay if that’s what you’re getting at

1

Anonymous OP 4w

Everyone has internalized misogyny one way or another. Men just typically don’t work to undo it past not literally beating women

1

Anonymous #7 4w

You are the reason why the number is so high

1