Ask Women on Sidechat | Dude here, lately ive been struggling in dating, because the women im dating(even the most feminist ones), still expect me to lead, whereas id like to approach dating as two people not man and woman, are gender roles that engrained in society?

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Ask Women 23h

Dude here, lately ive been struggling in dating, because the women im dating(even the most feminist ones), still expect me to lead, whereas id like to approach dating as two people not man and woman, are gender roles that engrained in society?

Anonymous 22h

patriarchy is very deeply ingrained in society and women also have a big role in perpetuating it. feminism has become a very mainstream idea but very few people engage with it as more than a vibes based kind of pro woman movement. which isn’t the worst thing, it has definitely got things done but has its limits in how effective it can be at getting people to examine they’re internalized biased and misogyny

Anonymous 23h

Honestly you’ve just got to keep looking for your person but also I fear gender roles ARE that engrained because as children we’re taught our “roles” but I hope you find your equal partner!!

Anonymous 23h

For example my last ex admitted at the start that she needs a provider and “man of the house”. It shocked me because she also protests that shit regularly

Anonymous 17h

I think very few people have similar beliefs as you so you could try to weed out the ones who don’t or compromise if that’s something you’re willing to do

Anonymous

#1 23h

Me too

Anonymous

#2 22h

from my personal experience cis straight women are especially hesitant to examine their desires in a relationship and consider whether they’re influenced by patriarchal thinking. it’s kind of a hard discussion to have. on one hand people in general don’t like the idea that their decisions are influenced by other people but that’s just how social systems of control work. on the other hand, cishet women are oppressed under the patriarchy and being told that you may be upholding that system

Anonymous

#2 22h

is not a good feeling at all. and on yet another hand (somehow) cishet women in particular have a lot of privelege under patriarchy that is based in their coherence to patriarchal ideas of what gender, sex, sexuality, and relationships are supposed to be like. they have a certain amount of personal stake in upholding those systems and a lot to lose by going against them

Anonymous

#2 22h

Okay okay so this the exact thing i was wondering, my experience just made me really wonder like how deeply it’s ingrained into society and a persons psyche it is, im willing to bet some of it comes from a persons environment as well, what they can see as a happy romantic relationship around them as a child, going against that idea or trying romance that doesn’t reflect their example is frightening and uncomfortable im sure.

Anonymous

OP 22h

i don’t think it’s even happy examples. most of how patriarchy is enforced is through peer pressure and expectations. your parents, your peers, other adults around you, the media you consume all enforce certain ideas of what relationships are supposed to look like. also how like you’re supposed to dress and talk and act and eat and what hobbies you should have etc etc. and going outside of these norms is very much harshly punished (trust me i know i’m trans)

Anonymous

OP 22h

not to mention a lot of heterosexual dating is just deeply tied up in patriarchy. the fact that it’s really seen as the only acceptable and legitimate form of dating doesn’t help at all. even now that queer relationships are more normalized. we’re still often seen as people making a choice because we couldn’t hack it as straight people (especially when you’re a lesbian, i’ve had so many girls say “oh i wish i could be a lesbian it seems so much better, but sadly im attracted to men :(“)

Anonymous

#2 22h

Is it like something that i could talk to a partner about? Not to change the person but really see if values align, this is all really really helpful but it seems like a tough conversation

Anonymous

OP 22h

it’s kind of hard to do especially as a man in your situation. it’s really not your place to like lecture your date on this stuff or interrogate her or anything (not that i think you’re planning to) but keep it in mind and just ask questions about what she wants in a relationship and if it seems like a bad fit, be respectful, steer the conversation away and later you can say you enjoyed the date but you guys aren’t a good fit.

Anonymous

#2 22h

Thanks a bunch!!

Anonymous

OP 22h

for your own betterment too i suggest you engage with feminism and leftist politics in general in an academic context, take a class, join a book club, find stuff to read up on and do that in your spare time. obvi be respectful of the spaces you’re stepping into but you seem like you’ve got a good head on your shoulders and your ego in check so you’ll do fine

Anonymous

#2 21h

I did some in college and I really enjoyed learning about this stuff, im trying to be the best person i can be and educating oneself is how you do that!!

Anonymous

OP 18h

Honestly man, I think you should expect to step into a “man of the house” role. I think the feminist movement is more of a women’s rights thing. Most women want to be taken care of, they want to be independent and not to rely on you but they definitely do like having a man that can help support them. The man of the house role doesn’t necessarily mean that you dictate everything though. You can still work as a team but take the lead, ykwim? What exactly do you mean by “approaching things as two”