Anonymous #1 12w

yes but i feel like it depends on the vibes

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Anonymous OP 12w

Wym

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Anonymous #8 12w

how is that a helpful or kind or respectful answer to my question?

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Anonymous OP 12w

It’s not helpful or kind or respectful, respectfully look in the mirror!!

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Anonymous #8 12w

🤔

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Anonymous #8 12w

I have… I don’t see anything wrong with myself and don’t think it’s a me problem because im conventionally attractive?

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Anonymous #8 12w

You’re weird bruh

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Anonymous #10 12w

no one said u had to buy them a drink lol, maybe just have a normal conversation with them

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Anonymous OP 12w

It’s an environment filled with scrutiny

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Anonymous #10 12w

with people you will never see again lol

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Anonymous OP 12w

True I am a victim of this too though you don’t know what to say and then you don’t talk to her

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Anonymous #5 12w

I mean think of it as social trials lol, pick people that seem easy to approach, try just maybe cracking some jokes or mentioning something about the upcoming taylor swift wedding, all very innocuous things that don’t necessarily mean that you have to compliment them directly. then women don’t feel creeped out. and then if anything does happen later it’s because you just made normal convo and she appreciated being treated like a human being instead of being made to feel conscious about her

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Anonymous OP 12w

appearance right away. and yes. women are that easy. talk about a favorite book. a favorite movie. talk about anything that makes you happy and that makes you feel confident about yourself. women don’t like the fake bullshit

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Anonymous OP 12w

I will try this during this week

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ty for being normal

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^^^this is the mentality

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^^^^^also if she says no there will literally always be another woman

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no it rlly is not

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my other thought was what he may have said

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I approached by asking what drink they had, because they had an interesting looking drink. There was a group of girls with one guy. The guy was chill and complimented my shirt. I complemented his shirt back, because he had a cool looking shirt that was a similar style to mine.

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While I was talking with him, one of the girls in the group said he was all of their boyfriends, to which he chuckled, which in retrospect she might have said to try to get me to leave, but the way all the women in the group were all slapping his butt it seemed believable enough at face value that they were in a harem or some sort of unconventional non-monogamous relationship.

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After chatting with the guy briefly he said he needed to use the restroom and would be back. So then while he had left to use the restroom I stood around for a few moments awkwardly trying to join the conversation the women were having until the same girl who told me before that the guy was all of their boyfriends turned to me and said I was making her and her friends uncomfortable and asked me to leave, to which I responded, “I’m sorry, that wasn’t my intention” and then briskly walked away.

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But honestly, that’s a lot better than what could have happened. I’m pretty sure once prior at a different bar in a different state, I got escorted out when I was completely sober, I presume because some woman I tried to approach, strike up a conversation with, or dance alongside on the dance floor (not in any way touching her) felt creeped out by what I was doing, but instead of telling me directly like the woman in that group did, she instead told the bar staff I had made her uncomfortable.

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I don’t truly know for sure why I was escorted out of the bar completely sober, because when I was confused and asking the people escorting me out why they were asking me to leave, they didn’t really give me an answer but just said I could come back another night but not tonight. That is my suspicion though.

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I suppose not really. I mean many of the women in that friend group were pretty from what I can recall, and I had also gone to the bar alone so I was also looking to meet people and converse with them. The guy with them seemed very friendly and welcoming but all the women seemed off-put or made uncomfortable by me for some reason.

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I mean maybe my mistake was going to a bar to meet new people rather than going with an already established friend group to hang out, so I guess maybe this is just a longwinded way of answering OP’s question in saying that it’s because most people nowadays go to bars with their group of friends in order to hang out with them, and not to be meet new people or have strangers approach them.

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He’s probably afraid of a woman not reacting well to being approached, her being bothered or made uncomfortable from being approached by a man who they don’t know, telling this to the bar staff, and him ending up being escorted out of the bar.

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So yeah, women are understandably afraid of men they don’t know, which leads men to be afraid of approaching women they don’t know, which then leads to an all around unfortunate situation.

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“Just don’t be creepy” It’s not like I’m trying to be creepy, besides approaching women in the first place I don’t even know what it is that I’m doing that’s creeping women out, and no one is willing to tell or give me any concrete feedback beyond “you made me/someone uncomfortable” and sometimes, not even that. The only way I know to reliably not creep anyone out is to not approach or interact with women, especially in a large public venue like a bar when I don’t already know them.

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Well wouldn’t meeting people with explicitly romantic or sexual intentions, as opposed to platonic ones, be more creepy or off-putting, not less?

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And if people find it off putting or creepy when I simply try to strike up platonic conversation, I’m sure as hell then not going to try to “meet people” for romantic or sexual purposes at a bar.

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If you are saying most people would be put off by a stranger trying to enter their friend group’s conversation, are you saying it’s better to approach women who are alone rather than with a group? Wouldn’t that be more likely to make a woman feel uncomfortable or unsafe than if she’s around her friends? And how many people even go to a bar alone these days looking to meet other people, platonically or romantically?

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You just said you think most people would be put off by a stranger trying to enter their friend group’s conversation. Wouldn’t that imply that bars are more an environment for people to drink and converse with already established friends than to meet new people?

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Like it feels almost like the idea of approaching and meeting new people in bars is antiquated and nostalgic, but these days it isn’t actually socially acceptable to approach people or groups of people at a bar who you don’t already know.

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Not from getting rejected, but one certainly loses face and one’s night out when they get escorted out of a bar because some woman complained to the bar staff that she was made uncomfortable when approached by a guy. And I’m sure in some niche circumstances it could get worse. At least from my personal experience, I’ve never had success or positive reception in approaching women at bars or bar like environments, and it’s only led to either nothing or embarrassment, losing face, and losing time.

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You lose everything when the girl you approached accuses you of SA and ruins your life

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Anonymous #6 11w

I mean that seems very extreme. But perhaps it’s about as or not much less likely than her responding positively to being approached and some form of a lasting relationship developing out of it.

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Anonymous #3 11w

Sure it’s extreme but it’s happened before so it’s very possible, and the people it’s happened to are on my level of attractiveness. So again, I have nothing to gain because even on the nonzero percent chance she accepts my advances, statistics suggest she’ll just cheat on me or break up with me later on. And as I established I theoretically have everything to lose. It’s a zero gain situation.

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Anonymous #6 11w

Do you personally know people it’s happened to? And are you sure or very confident that the accusations were false?

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I would agree, but in practice this leads to getting approached by venue staff and either warned or kicked out, at worst with absolutely no explanation, and at best told that there were complaints by women who claimed they were made uncomfortable, but aren’t able to give any specifics as to who was made uncomfortable or what made them uncomfortable out of respect for the confidentially of the complainants.

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It’s hard to actually become better without concrete feedback as to what to do differently or adjust. So the practice ends up being demoralizing, all one can do is speculate or recount the details of one’s interactions to get an outside perspective of what could have lead to those outcomes. Without any firsthand, concrete feedback, the cost of the practice versus the rate of improvement just isn’t worth it.

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Eventually, one simply learns that to reliably avoid these sorts of awkward, embarrassing, and mortifying situations, not to even mention the harm done to others by bothering them or making them uncomfortable in “practicing” one’s social skills and the associated guilt and shame, one should simply not approach people, especially women, and particularly in large and public environments without a common shared interest or identity between people, like a bar.

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I couldn’t do it this weekend didn’t have the courage but maybe this week

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I ALWAYS SAY THIS

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Anonymous #3 11w

has this happened to u? this seems like a weird thing I never see actually happen ever

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Anonymous #3 11w

I mean I’m sure if u told us what happened we could give u concrete feedback dawg

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Anonymous #3 11w

dude no that’s only how u isolate yourself

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Nope, been told women just want to enjoy the night out with friends

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Anonymous OP 11w

Just because you’ve never seen it happen doesn’t mean it never happens. As a woman who I presume is neurotypical your experiences will be different from mine. While I may be the only person giving specific details of a situation, other commenters are expressing similar sentiments of not wanting to come across as creepy and being terrible at reading signals.

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Anonymous OP 11w

I did give specific details on a particular situation where I approached a group of women and then one of them told me I was making her and her group uncomfortable and asked me to leave in the replies to my original comment, so I would be curious as to what concrete feedback you would have for that situation.

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Anonymous OP 11w

Okay, maybe not avoiding approaching entirely, but at least not approaching in the context of a bar. What I’ve learned from my many attempts as well as feedback from others when recounting my experiences to them is that going solo to bars or large public events without any common interest or identity among those in attendance, and approaching people or groups of people, is not a good, effective, or successful strategy to meet people.

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Anonymous OP 11w

While it still has been far from smooth sailing, I’ve at least had somewhat better luck in meeting new people at smaller activities surrounding a common interest or shared identity.

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Anonymous OP 11w

Like bars are really not the place to meet new people I’ve come to learn, especially if you don’t have the social skills to tell who’s open to being approached and having a conversation and who wants to be left alone in peace, to either chat with their pre-established group of friends or in solitude.

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Anonymous OP 11w

If by normal you mean a woman, then I guess all the men in the comments answering your question aren’t normal 😭

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It’s also not merely a certain amount of simple rejections but actually a lot more than just that. Learning that you unintentionally intruded on someone’s peace, actively bothered them by approaching, and the guilt, shame, embarrassment, and other consequences that follow, after a certain amount of times of *that* happening, not merely of simple rejections.

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Anonymous #3 11w

I’m neurodivergent lol.

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Anonymous #3 11w

I mean if they told u that u were making them uncomfortable, then it was a good call to leave it. I can’t really give more specific advice other than that until I know what you tried to say/how the dynamic was. I think it was bold of u to approach them, and that’s something that should be appreciated. how you went about the approach is important tho. that’s all

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Anonymous #3 11w

do u have other friends u could go with?

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So I have to look for the smallest signals known to man

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^^^this is important to note and take into consideration

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^^^^^

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Anonymous #3 11w

no one said you’re trying to be creepy. sometimes things we all can do can come across as creepy or weirdo behavior without us even realizing it. women can be creepy or weirdos too

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Anonymous OP 11w

Well I just meant it’s not as simple as “just don’t be creepy” when we don’t even realize we are coming across as creepy or know what we’re doing or how we’re behaving that’s being perceived as creepy or weirdo behavior.

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Anonymous OP 11w

Like you gotta be a bit more specific than just saying “just don’t be creepy” to know what to do differently.

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I mean I go to make new friends too

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^^^

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^^^^^ just as much as men care about the way a woman presents herself. we women care about the way yall present yourselves

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^^^^ sorry #6, #12 ate

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💀💀

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Why not both can? Why do we have to compete and just try to fix both?

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Anonymous #2 11w

yea me either. what r u asking?

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Why can’t we work to solve false accusations and corrupt cases that bypass conviction for people that did it like trump and diddy?

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Anonymous #2 11w

what do u think the metoo movement was for…?

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Anonymous #2 11w

did the #metoo movement work or did it just make men terrified of women?

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Anonymous OP 11w

Make men terrified of women??

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Anonymous #2 11w

ok that’s an extreme way to phrase it. more like it made there be this big gaping divide socially between men and women and the men who are shitheads in positions of power are still shitheads in positions of power.

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Anonymous OP 11w

Also yes false accusations are real and do have an impact whether it leads to a conviction or not. To say otherwise is reckless to both genders and takes away from the impact of real accusations

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Anonymous OP 11w

It didn’t seem like a gender divide especially since it led a lot more men actors to take action in hollywood and watch out for women coworkers in the field. It also helped expose people like dan schneider and first piqued interest in the bts of the corruption behind modeling agencies so yeah the impact mattered a lot

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Anonymous OP 11w

More of a power or class divide than anything

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Anonymous #2 11w

yea it did a lot of good. but just because it did good things doesn’t mean it didn’t have an impact on society as a whole and how we view men and women

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Anonymous OP 11w

Yeah but would you rather people do nothing until we find a promising cure for the issue as a whole or take stabs at the issue over time to raise awareness or at least help a couple people in the process until we get there?

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Anonymous OP 11w

Any event that happens amidst these crises will have an impact. That’s what happens in a society

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Anonymous #2 11w

you obviously know which option I pick as a woman.

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Anonymous OP 11w

That’s what I’m saying. It’s a necessary impact

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Anonymous #2 11w

we’re at a point where there’s not much left to call society, like I’m sorry. but people don’t make participating in society or friendships or socializing enough of their job in order to maintain social balance with one another

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Anonymous OP 11w

Then why vouch for the communities at all?

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Anonymous #2 11w

it’s not a necessary impact tho. like there are ways we could have done things a lot better. like maybe completely erasing men from the conversation in the way that it was done was a really bad choice considering where we’re at in society now with all of the red pilled and incel shit circulating social media. and all of the men with mental health issues struggling because they felt cast aside or rejected. and im not saying that their actions based on those feelings were right. but I am saying

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Anonymous #2 11w

that we largely underestimated the impact it would have on men’s mental health. and that there was no support for men or women’s mental health as a result of this

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Anonymous OP 11w

Those two kinda conflict

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Anonymous OP 11w

Then why can’t we work on both? Just cuz there’s no faith for us as a society means it’s everybody for themselves when it comes to being deported or trafficked?

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Anonymous OP 11w

The me too movement was necessary because being raped or human trafficked is way worse than a male loneliness pandemic as a guy

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Anonymous #2 11w

I literally never said that. my point was a critique/criticism, not a statement of a lack of necessity for the movement. just because I’m discussing the consequences and I’m discussing the absolute lack of care that went into thinking about the ramifications of the actions of many of us during that time doesn’t mean I’m saying that the #metoo movement wasn’t absolutely necessary or justified lol. I’m saying the consequences weren’t necessary. there’s a difference

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Anonymous #2 11w

I literally never said it wasn’t. I said the CONSEQUENCES weren’t necessary. there is a difference in the way I’m phrasing this from what you think I’m saying

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Anonymous #2 11w

impact = consequences, NOT impact = change.

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Anonymous OP 11w

Sacrifices are sacrifices

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Anonymous OP 11w

You can’t just pick and choose what issues may come from a movement or change. That’s how tradeoffs and sacrifices work. Otherwise we’d all be in utopias by now

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Anonymous OP 11w

If there’s no impact then there’s no change??? That’s the definition of impact is big change 😭

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Anonymous #2 11w

I’m not having this conversation anymore. we’re not going to get anywhere with this if you refuse to see where I’m coming from. have a great night.

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Anonymous #2 11w

I’m a woman who has been raped and sexually assaulted and went to school for a very liberal degree and worked in political advocacy for liberal politics

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Anonymous OP 11w

Then I’m surprised you don’t want more impact. Good luck out there

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Anonymous #2 11w

this is why I’m not having this conversation with you. I literally never said anything about not wanting more impact (impact = change). and the fact that you’re assuming that’s the position I’m taking just because I’m talking about societal consequences, societal consequences we have to consider if we want to heal as a society oh by the way, that it means that I don’t see any good in what the #metoo movement did for society. as a woman, I benefitted. I am simply saying what good were those

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Anonymous #2 11w

benefits if this political climate is where we’re currently, and if they are not long lasting? you have the wrong read on me dawg. very respectfully, you’re being very aggressive to someone u don’t even know. over someone you’ve already decided is wrong.

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Anonymous #2 11w

and that’s no way to have a conversation, even a conversation with someone who is on a similar page as you, just with a different lens. you should work on your moral perfectionism, it’s leaking.

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I was happy in the only relationship I’ve ever been in. That relationship ended when she cheated on me with 4 men at once. So no, that relationship had no value. If I could go back, I wouldn’t pursue that relationship because it wasn’t worth pursuing. Giving up isn’t doing myself any disservice, it’s literally the only way to win.

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I’m not the only one who’s been cheated on dawg😭

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Anonymous #2 11w

I think I understand your point. you’re saying “screw the cost because the impact is necessary,” right? ok well. read through the other comments and see what the temporary “impact” has been on the culture of society. and while I can understand that the impact (change) was necessary, the consequences could have been avoided if we were more careful about the sociocultural roll out. social media powder kegged what should have been decades long of talking and synthesizing and understanding. and as a

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Anonymous #2 11w

result, people internalized everything in different ways. so much so that there are, arguably, more problems to deal with in terms of the repercussions than ever before. sure, the benefits were great. but now we’re in a position where we have to address and pay the costs.

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Anonymous #2 11w

and I’m not saying the only reason for where we’re at is the #metoo movement. but it (along with other political movements) shook up the cultural landscape of society in a way that I don’t think society was prepared for. and I know you can argue “well when is society ever going to be prepared.” but it’s going to take a lot of work to fix this.

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Anonymous OP 11w

I wasn’t being aggressive. I was confused whether or not you were saying it was worth it cuz I think any attempt at dismantling these issues as a society is worth it. We have responsibility as people to look out for the other. Like everyone’s saying not enough people are talking about the epstein files as we should but just because we can’t personally convict those who were faulty doesn’t mean we can’t just let it go

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Literally never said that

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Anonymous OP 11w

Okay see that makes more sense. Yeah I can get behind that it definitely could’ve been handled better and yeah it didn’t do as good of a long term impact as it should’ve

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Anonymous OP 11w

It’s more of a personal thing for me but in a country where even tho my people were here in peace when the colonizers came. We kinda coexisted although not neutrally especially with different race feuds in our area. But us living complacently as long as we personally were comfortable also backfired on us because now immigration targets us by background and not legal procedure but we let it go unchecked just as much as any other citizen and now my family and community are paying the price

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Anonymous #2 11w

that’s all ive been trying to say so I’m happy you see where I was coming from now. apologies for getting frustrated, I’m just overtired from work and friends and life outside of yak

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Anonymous #2 11w

I don’t think people are letting it go tho. like I go on social media and people comment about it all the time. and someone made an entire archive gallery (I believe in NYC) of all of the victims and they have printed out copies of all of the Epstein files for everyone to read. plenty of people are pushing for justice and conversation about this still. it’s just that our governing body currently sucks. and I would argue that the way we rolled out the #metoo movement and other political movements

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Anonymous OP 11w

Idk it’s a tricky subject. I know I’m not capable of having a correct moral stance on everything but if there’s ever anything I can do in my control for my people or others, I’d be willing to do it regardless if its something expected of me or not because at the end of the day, I want everyone to be okay even if its small chips away at it. Eventually something has to pay off even if it barely has an impact

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Anonymous #2 11w

caused more repercussions and consequences for us to pay as a society than it will have given us as a lasting impact. At least for the meantime

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Anonymous #2 11w

ohhhhh ok I can see where this got personal for you as well. yea that definitely makes sense, I can see your point as well

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Anonymous OP 11w

Yeah I agree with that. It just feels like its not talking talking like what are we gonna do about this and its just make memes about it or talk about updates like we’re checking the news before we go to work. Ofc I know its easier said than done to just drop everything in your life to be a pawn without a direct leader to fight back aimlessly against the system. Maybe there is some kind of war bts we’re not fully seeing

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Anonymous OP 11w

Its okay. I’m just glad we were able to say what we had to say and feel heard. I’m sorry for trying to nitpick answers

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Anonymous #2 11w

in other news, holy fuckin ratio on my post💀

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Anonymous #2 11w

dude it’s ok just like try to hear people out before you let your assumptions of what others are trying to say and your emotions cloud your judgment of them. it doesn’t bode well for public discourse and understanding context and nuance in discussions

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Anonymous #2 11w

I’m sorry for being frustrated I’m just tired & close to logging off for the day

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Anonymous OP 11w

I got accepted by a friend group of lesbians in hs even tho I was straight and it didn’t resonate with most people even tho we were okay with it so I had to pretend I was gay to put everyone at ease

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Anonymous OP 11w

Yeah that’s fair

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Anonymous #2 11w

why would u have to pretend u were gay tho huh?

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Anonymous OP 11w

People were already assuming it, my gf at the time seemed like she was assuming it, it didn’t help that I was the oldest in the group, then it became a running gag in the group, it actually ended up messing with my head for years but we’re still friends till this day

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Anonymous OP 11w

I mainly just did it for other people who were judgmental in something that didn’t affect them so I did it kinda like a reassuring thing

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