Anonymous #3 3d

well bc that in itself is a logical fallacy. “because they can everyone can” is kinda a oversimplification of reality. there’s so many differences between others’ lives and success means different things for other people. it’s always just more nuanced than that

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Anonymous #2 3d

there’s always things you can do yes, but what i’m basically saying is results may vary greatly 😭

27

Anonymous #1 3d

who is you ppl dawg

31

Anonymous #2 3d

Everything is nuanced but generalities are still mostly true. If you don’t try to be better every day and come from a place of it’s everything around me that’s keeping me down…. You’ll never be anything but a self made victim. There’s marathon runners with no legs…. All kinds of stuff

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Anonymous OP 3d

While it is more nuanced than that, I don’t think simplifying reality is a negative thing. If someone views their situation and says I can’t then they’ve already lost before they’ve even started. Not everyone is going to become a stupid rich billionaire, but I do think everyone has the ability to improve their situation regardless of their point of origin.

-6

Anonymous #3 3d

some peoples situation improved with their maximum effort will still be shitty in a lot of ways is all i’m saying and i think it’s ok to acknowledge that

14

Anonymous #2 3d

idek if this is generally true tho bc so many circumstances aren’t difficult just because of a lack of effort or smth like if it’s something totally out of your control yeah you can make the best of it but the best of it may still not be ideal

13

Anonymous #3 3d

I don’t think you’re wrong to say that everyone has the ability to improve, but that’s a very different statement from oop’s “you’re a victim of your excuses”. Even if improvement is possible, people certainly are in situations that aren’t their fault.

4

Anonymous #5 3d

but that’s my thing why act like it has to be one or the other? why can’t it be “i accept there will always be things out of my control that will affect be but there are also things i CAN control and that i should try to control”

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Anonymous #4 3d

Sometimes bad things happen. That’s called life. You can only control you… that’s it, the universe does whatever it wants. You have to control yourself. That’s how you take control, otherwise you’ll never be successful in anything. —- doesn’t mean you deny that bad things happen…. But you have to know that you’re the only person who is really in control of your own life

0

Anonymous OP 3d

I agree and obv you cant control everything and obv you arent a victim of everything, its a question of degree but if your first instinct is always self accountability you will be happier than if your first instinct is blaming circumstances

11

Anonymous #5 3d

i think it’s equally as important to be accepting and cognizant of your circumstances and that’s not the same thing as blaming anything on anything. just being aware

26

Anonymous OP 3d

You

-6

Anonymous #4 3d

My point still stands. You can improve your situation regardless of how your life started out. But if you don’t even try in the first place then… that’s that You won’t move. You won’t progress. You won’t improve. Nobody is saying you HAVE to be super rich, but you can only find success (whatever that looks like to you) if you CHOOSE to move.

0

Anonymous #3 3d

I get that, but saying that anything bad happening is just an “excuse” is just laughably ignorant of reality. You can make a legitimate effort to succeed and still be a victim of unfortunate circumstances. The people who give up due to a small problem are few and far between, and the less fortunate often put in far more effort than others to still end up in worse positions. If anything, being well off out if luck shouldn’t be an excuse to claim success for something you didn’t do yourself.

1

Anonymous #4 3d

I don’t think anyone saying when something bad happens to you it’s an excuse. Just that it’s not helpful to dwell in those places at all. - it’s oppression of your own volition. It takes time but you have to move on. And you can what if this to death oh this tragedy… that one. It doesn’t matter, you have to survive. It’s a mindset and it works. Being a victim doesn’t

-1

Anonymous #6 3d

1/2 That’s so funny you say all that because I came from where you’re talking about as a Polynesian man. I didn’t have WiFi or a phone and I was homeless for a little bit. Now I’ve got a phone, a car, I’m married and we’ve got a small apartment for ourselves. Is it the best? No, but we’re gonna make it work. I’m putting myself through school and because we’re married FAFSA pays for a large chunk of my college tuition and scholarships are taking care of the rest.

18

Anonymous #3 3d

2/2 It’s not about doing things the same way. It’s about getting the hand you’re dealt and making the most of it. Life sucks for everyone, some more than others, but don’t sit there and tell me that things are impossible. Focus on yourself and make it work. It doesn’t have to be more complicated than that.

12

Anonymous #3 3d

no one said anything about impossible but yeah it can be super hard and some of the things out of your control can literally impede your ability to do these things and the whole “don’t make excuses” perspective is dismissive and ignorant tbh

20

Anonymous #2 3d

“it doesn’t matter” is crazy i feel like you’re arguing for suppressing emotion and like that’s not healthy either idk 😭

5

Anonymous #1 3d

what did i do

7

Anonymous #6 3d

2/10 rage bait

7

Anonymous #11 2d

that’s all i’m saying like there are so many people with such overwhelming pain and struggle i feel like “you’re a victim of your excuses” is a crazy broad stroke i think it’s very much a case by case thing

15

Anonymous OP 2d

Read my comment again because obviously you’re missing my point. Life will always throw curveballs your way, the unexpected happens all the time. A death in the family, the death of a loved one, financial issues, etc. What you do when you find yourself in every hard situation matters.

1

Anonymous #5 2d

If you’re homeless for something out of your control somehow trying to take accountability for that won’t make you happy? That’s such a tone deaf, privileged take…

11

Anonymous #8 2d

White people try not to get mad when POC don’t fall for your “I’m so good and empathetic and relatable” act, and instead call you out on your bullshit challenge, impossible edition

1

Anonymous #3 2d

Death in the family is not the same as facing homelessness or systemic racism?

6

Anonymous #12 2d

Did you not read my original comment? Homelessness? Been there. Systemic Racism? I don’t believe it exists, but I’m a POC so it would apply to me too. Just say you’re a victim of your situation and you gave up before you even started.

2

Anonymous #3 2d

No, I read it. It sounds like a lot of privileged bs. “I did it and I’m ’not white’ so everyone else can too.” Ok hun, if that makes you feel better bout your circumstances

9

Anonymous #12 2d

“Privileged” as in your parents were not idiots

0

Anonymous #12 2d

Privileged? What part of what I said is privileged?? 🤨

0

Anonymous #3 2d

Literally all of it. For example “I don’t believe in systemic racism.” Shit you probably don’t even believe in regular racism 💀💀 and the fact that you’re acting like you don’t know how your take is privileged shows your privilege 🤭

2

Anonymous #12 2d

Consider this: - homeless person, blames his surroundings, thinks theres nothing he can do, starts doing har drugs because theres no point any ways, gets addicted and never recovers - homeless person, says to himsef: i have control over my enviroment. Goes to fast foot joints asking for work, publish showers, thrift stores, spends any money gotten begging toward personal development, and tryinf to get a job/ housing. There is no guarantee, but who is less likely to have a happier life?

-2

Anonymous OP 2d

Thats a nice ideal, however the set of things in your control and the set of things out of your control are both infinitely large that you cant possibly be completely aware and focused on both. You must prioritise (either conciously or sub conciously) what to focus on. I choose things i can control.

0

Anonymous #5 2d

That’s assuming they CAN get a job, they get money from begging, and have access/transportation to public showers. And none of that stuff will get them a house or a stable income. Also you mentioned thrifting but not how they eat? Even if you get a job and get a little money you aren’t gonna be happy living on the street

4

Anonymous #5 2d

And the person not on hard drugs will have the less happy life, drugs make people feel good which is why they get addicted. Being sober and not having the bare necessities will always be more sad

1

Anonymous #12 2d

I didnt say you were guaranteed anything, but if you just give up and lean into victimhood you will probably become a drug addict to cope which is a lot worse

0

Anonymous #12 2d

1/2 My life is privileged?? I grew up in a single mother household and she kicked me out when I was 15. I lived with my grandma until I ran out at 16. I was homeless for 3 years after that. I think you throwing the word privileged around even though you know nothing about who’s on the other side shows who’s more privileged here. I don’t believe in systemic racism because there are people who moved here from outside the country, barely speak English, and yet THEY’RE making it work.

-1

Anonymous #3 2d

Just because bad things happen to you doesn’t mean you lack privilege. The fact that your first thought of how unprivileged you are is having bad things harken to you shows how privileged you are. Bad things happen to everyone, the rest of your life is good because this is the fluff you’re complaining about. Not how your entire family poor and addiction runs in your family, not how you’re racially profiled and can’t get opportunities to better yourself, nothing of substance. Also notice how you

6

Anonymous #3 2d

Never said ow you got out of homelessness because you know you’re privileged and it goes against your argument 🤭

1

Anonymous #12 2d

2/2 Despite what I’ve gone through I’m still making it work now. Don’t talk to me about privilege just because you don’t know how to put your head down and work. Racism 100% exists, but I reject the idea that there’s a system in place nowadays holding me back from achieving my goals. The fact that you can’t view your situation and try to make more out of it is privileged in and of itself. You have the option to not make it in life. I don’t.

0

Anonymous #3 2d

It’s literally a privilege to be able to work. If you can’t work how are you supposed to improve your life? Quickly

5

Anonymous #12 2d

Got out of homelessness by getting a job doing construction. Got a gym membership for the open showers and worked my way out from there. You want to pick apart my life and tell me how privileged I am while you sit there on your phone doing nothing proving nothing.

-1

Anonymous #12 2d

Are you saying you’re unable to work? What’s stopping you? Is it your disabilities or your mental health? Shut the fuck up and get a job lazy ass.

-1

Anonymous OP 2d

You can’t let emotions cripple you, if you do you’re lost. Improvise, adapt, overcome…. A mantra I picked up and I find helpful 🤷🏻‍♂️ there’s many like it. You can wallow in pain and self pity, or choose to survive. It’s really that simple

4

Anonymous OP 2d

They may, but they may not. Living in what ifs is just making excuses. All you can do is what you can control. ->

1

Anonymous #5 2d

obviously you need to think about what you can control when actually making decisions, but that’s still not really the point here. Say what you want about hypothetical ways to pull yourself up, but most homeless people are not homeless out of their own volition, and aren’t making excuses not to get a job, they’re struggling to find any way to support themselves they can. I think it’s better to assume that other people need help and help them than to assume they’re making excuses to do nothing.

9

Anonymous captain_levi 2d

Thank you Captain

4

Anonymous #6 2d

No WiFi? Come on. I do live in Boston but you can get free WiFi from the city. A free phone, a bed to sleep in. No one sleeps on the street because they HAVE to… at least here

2

Anonymous #2 2d

Ok I will say at least I wasn’t sleeping on the street in Boston. That shit sounds miserable.

1

Anonymous #2 2d

why does everyone always go to the extreme lmao. you can feel emotions, you can let yourself go through things. that’s not the same thing as wallowing. things do matter for us and that’s ok that’s what makes us human and yes we have to learn to cope but coping doesn’t mean not letting yourself feel

1

Anonymous OP 2d

Ohhh I see what you’re saying. I agree then that it’s ok to go through the emotions and allow yourself to feel things as long as you don’t get stuck there and keep it moving then I don’t see an issue.

1

Anonymous #3 2d

homie i don’t think you know what systemic racism means. people being successful isn’t evidence disproving systemic racism, the millions of people being continuously being harmed by oppressive systems is plenty demonstrative of what’s happening. there were black millionaires in the U.S. in the early 1900s does that mean systemic racism didn’t exist then?

1

Anonymous captain_levi 2d

omg but my thing is why is “complain” the wording like that makes it sound like these things are trivial. the other thing is you can literally work on improving things while being like “damn this is really hard” and that’s ok and even HEALTHY to acknowledge

1

Anonymous #15 2d

alr man you go tel a 7 year old who lost their entire family to just “be optimistic” and see if everyone doesn’t call you an asshole

1

Anonymous OP 2d

Tell that to all the rich Asian people. Came here, struggled with systemic racism, and somehow still made it work. The argument gets worse when you look at the people who immigrated here recently and are somehow still making it work. I’m not so dense to not know that things were hard back then, but it would also be dishonest to pretend that times haven’t changed.

1

Anonymous #15 2d

This comment section is terribly sad, what happened to the saying “you wouldn’t want to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes”. Have we really reached a point in life where we just assume that if someone has things we don’t have, (money, skin color, family, etc.) that they live a better life. That’s a terrible way to live and all it does is take away from the beautiful things in your own life. It is impossible to fully compare two lives so why do we constantly do it.

1

Anonymous #3 2d

no no but the point is- clearly people can succeed even when systems to put them down exist so people of color being successful isn’t evidence disproving the existence of systemic racism. what systems do you even think i’m talking about when i say systemic racism?

1

Anonymous OP 2d

That’s not my point, that 7 year old has every right to be traumatized and sad and completely ruined from such a terrible event. As they grow up though they have two choices, either feel bad for themselves or realize they are a living breathing person who yes may be sad but can still live a life worth living.

1

Anonymous #15 2d

also wait a dam minute “it has nothing to do with privilege in any scenario” the fuck it doesn’t?? i think you got a either warped or just ignorant sense of reality partner

1

Anonymous OP 2d

Ok in that case replace “complaining about” with “dwelling on”. I guess it’s okay to complain about things out of your control, but don’t dwell on them when you can’t do anything about it.

1

Anonymous #3 2d

alsooooo immigrants are kinda a completely different population when we talk about this stuff i think it’s relevant to remember that there is selection bias there so immigrants are more likely to be immigrating when healthier so they’re healthier on average than peers of the same race that have grown up here

1

Anonymous #3 2d

aaand at least in the case of hispanic immigrants i know there’s been study that first generation children tend to have worse health outcomes in terms of the health markers that indicate chronic stress. which is not to say one population has anything better per se just that it’s not a 1 to 1 comparison

1

Anonymous #5 2d

so question what do you suggest they do to cope? what happens if they have depression and no means to get medication they need?

1

Anonymous OP 2d

Then they lock in

1

Anonymous OP 2d

I would suggest they focus on what they can control. Obviously its not a magic pill, and i am also not speaking from experience. But you say to me something like “someone loses their kid then loses all their legs and becomes parallized and becomes allergic to the sun” like yeah their life is obviously gonna suck. Im not saying this will make their life magically AOK!! Just from thinking about these scenarios and my personal life experience it seems that a victim mindset causes more pain than not

1

Anonymous #4 2d

I agree with everything you said! I dont think assuming other people are making excuses is helpful. I think from a personal perspective not making excuses is helpful.

2

Anonymous #5 2d

so like what you can control would be using what you have to cope? what if all you have access to is drugs?

1

Anonymous OP 2d

I’m sorry but I think you are misunderstanding me. I simply mean it is a universal thing, your “privilege” or situation should not make you feel bad for yourself. What I am saying is nothing controversial quite frankly it all boils down to loving the gift of life that you were given and loving the self that you created. I apologize if I got you upset by making my point to confusing, hope you all have a great day.

1

Anonymous OP 2d

I mean implicitly when i say “focus on what you can control” i mean focus on things that lead to your overall betterment. I dont mean focus on your homocidal and peadophillic urges for example.

1

Anonymous #5 2d

using drugs and murder and abuse are so far from each other idek how tf you got there but yeah if they have a mental disorder, they need to feel better to function, only thing they have access to that makes them feel better at all is drugs. what then?

1

Anonymous #12 2d

Why so mad at people telling you you’re not a victim and you have control over your life lol, feels like that would be a good thing. Hope you feel better soon

1

Anonymous OP 2d

I hope we can both agree that a homeless person doing drugs is worse than a homeless person not doing drugs. In the case where a homeless person is depressed and struggling with drug cravings, which perspective do you think is more effective in stopping them using drugs?

1

Anonymous #5 2d

better for who? who feels better if they have depression? the one who occasionally has reprieve or the one who does…nothing? why are the drugs the point? isn’t the point being able to feel better?

1

Anonymous OP 2d

A depressed homeless person addicted to drugs is definitely less happy than a depressed homeless person not addicted to drugs. They are in a constant state of withdrawal and scramble to get enough money for drugs which barely relieve them and they degrade themselves more and more until they are sucking dick in an alleyway

1

Anonymous OP 2d

The main difference between your perspectives is that you’re convinced the homeless person in this scenario has no options for reprieve outside of drugs. And the person you’re arguing with believes there’s always an option. I tend to agree that there’s nearly always an option, but if there’s no options why not be a junkie. The point is, often people say they have no options besides drugs, when they in fact, do.

3

Anonymous #5 2d

you say definitely as though you’ve been in the situation yourself. people who turn to drugs in situations like this are doing so because their pain is so insurmountable they have no other resource to turn to to alleviate it. when again your suggestion for people who have crippling depression and no way to cope is to do nothing? if the choice is do nothing vs do something risky and desperate i mean what you think ppl will choose 😭

1

Anonymous #8 2d

ok like what?

1

Anonymous OP 2d

I’m not sure what you mean, if you give me the hypothetical homeless persons circumstances, I could give you a list of options they have, but then you could argue that this hypothetical person doesn’t have those options. The problem is that it’s all a hypothetical. And options vary case by case.

1

Anonymous OP 2d

Im not saying their choice isnt understandable, im saying they will end up more depressed

1

Anonymous #8 2d

oh well actually that’s exactly the point. options vary case by case and the viability of options also vary which is why i think making broad statements about people just being “victims of excuses” is incredibly ignorant to the millions of cases where that’s so not the case unless you’re just an asshole

1

Anonymous #5 2d

ok but why is that a victim mindset? theyre not making excuses they’re making a choice to cope that you already said is understandable how is that a victim mindset

1

Anonymous OP 2d

I don’t think making broad statements is ignorant because millions of cases is nothing compared to the human population and the amount of people that are victims of their own excuses. I will argue that for every person that genuinely has no other recourse besides being a homeless junkie, there’s 10 more who could be doing something more

1

Anonymous OP 2d

Catering to edge cases is a never ending rabbit hole

1

Anonymous #8 2d

except that’s a completely arbitrary number no? how do you know they’re edge cases? how do you know the proportion

1