Anonymous #1 1w

I'm an ex-christian and I still can't wrap my head around it tbh..

33

Anonymous OP 1w

But you haven’t seriously read the bible lmao

0

Anonymous #1 1w

Yes I had to for confirmation classes and I went to a christian high school that forced us to take religion classes reading the full Bible under a year and learning about all the popes

40

Anonymous OP 1w

Ya you weren’t curious and open minded on your accord. I mean you literally just took an excerpt and used it to justify something you wish to see. How do you not see that with any logic or reasoning, regardless of your feelings and desires? Try focusing on other religions if you’re lost and don’t like that one and actually read their books without preconceived notions. Might give you some perspective and answers to what you’re actually asking

14

Anonymous #1 1w

Wait a minute you are athesist so you don't even know anything about this issue especially nothing about the Bible so why are you here again?

23

Anonymous OP 1w

And now are blindly throwing shit at the wall left handed. If you hate a certain type of people just say so? I really don’t get it the hoops homie

12

Anonymous #1 1w

No I just realized that you have never been Christian unlike me yet when I tell you that I HAVE read the Bible you tell me to read it again like you ever did??

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Anonymous OP 1w

I’ve read multiple religion’s books and have met and talked to many people from each. Have you actually put in the work or just mad at your parents for trying to give you a path and have been acting out of spite since? You have to think for yourself dude

7

Anonymous #1 1w

You sound oddly Christian because that's their go-to thing when people try to leave the church...all that stuff on parents trying to guide you on the right path when they actually just stuff their religion down my throat like I am my own person so I can make my own decisions and I choose not to be Catholic. What's the big deal about that, I thought the group of loving and acceptance could deal with that stuff way better

26

Anonymous OP 1w

Well you are definitely confused that’s forsure. You sound jewish tho, maybe look into that one

-12

Anonymous #1 1w

I don't even know what you are talking about.. 😭

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Anonymous #1 1w

Lol

1

Anonymous #5 1w

2/2 even if they hate you for it.

-2

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Domestic violence and divorce is highest among lesbian couples. Researchers believe it’s because there’s no true established physically/emotionally dominant person in the relationship so to reinforce the perception, it must be done physically. I’ll confirm the data bearing witness to one couple that put her partner in the hospital by hitting her with wine bottle over a jealousy issue. Another stabbed her partner with a kitchen knife (thankfully not fatally) over a threat of break up. People 1/

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Anonymous #5 1w

2/2 fear being alone, and the threat of losing someone you love aparently becomes an emotional roller coaster for many of these couples.

-16

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

But isn’t that quote abt men laying with boys (pedos)?

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Anonymous #7 1w

I actually was just in a class about the Hebrew Bible and we had a whole class about this verse. Unfortunately the most common theory is that it does literally just mean “man shall not lie with man”, but we have to understand the current social reality at the time and homosexuality was directly in opposition to procreation, which they valued more than almost anything else

10

Anonymous #7 1w

So like the Bible technically does say gay people are bad. But if you don’t believe in the Bible that shouldn’t matter to you, ESPECIALLY if you’re a Christian and believe in superseding theology because I’m willing to bet most christians who point to that verse don’t keep kosher or make sacrifices or anything else they do in the Old Testament

14

Anonymous #5 1w

Oh oh oh I thought we were talking about the Bible though

-1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

The concept of sacrifices is prophesied to be no longer needed after Jesus sacrificed himself for us. I highly recommend to other Christian’s attempting to abide by the other Old Testament laws/guidance. There’s great health/family benefits to the diet, clothing, and behavioral concepts. + resting. Taking one day off a week, and one year off every seven years if possible (sabbatical) would do great things for people’s long term health.

-3

Anonymous #8 1w

Yes all sins are equal in the eyes of God, who exists everywhere and in all things, both inside and outside of time, but we currently live in linear time, so something like telling a white lie is going to have a different impact over time than poisoning your neighbor and making his wife a widow. There’s tremendous focus on bloodlines of the Old Testament, and many of the things punishable with death, are sins that harm not just people, but families.

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Anonymous #5 1w

Let’s assume that you are a man and your older brother has just married a woman. Then he dies. Do you a) marry his wife and have children with her who will actually be your dead brothers children, leaving you a surrogate father or b) refuse to do that

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

We are. I’m sure other’s who study the scripture will eventually point out verses in Timothy and not just the Old Testament. I’ve just found it’s better to speak to what people know if they aren’t scripture theologians. As I study the scripture I ask myself “why would God make that a law?” And I often find a scientific or health benefit when I attempt to follow the guidance. Students tend to get science and health stuff more than scripture if they havnt read it.

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Anonymous #5 1w

Except I have read scripture :)

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Ah the Onan/Tamar situation eh? If you add to it direct guidance from God to insure that bloodline continues (many theologians believe it was to insure the line of David eventually produced Jesus) then yes. You do as God commands. But I have yet to hear God’s voice directly command me to do something of that nature, or been visited by an Angel bearing a message so, that would be a bridge to cross if I ever came to it. I would likely pray on the situation for quite some time before discerning.

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Anonymous #5 1w

how can you read this and not think that you’re deranged

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Anonymous #9 1w

Because I’ve seen the patterns play out with my own eyes. I know what they result in. The only thing that appears to be deranged is those who repeat the same patterns or the patterns of others, expecting a different result because their TV/Music hypnotized them into it. Is that not the definition of insanity to some? Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

-2

Anonymous #5 1w

Except G-d didn’t tell Onan to lay with Tamar, Judah did. He refers to an existing law that G-d has not explicitly spoken. It was part of their familial structure of Beit Av, where the firstborn son has to provide a firstborn son in order to carry on the family line. While they are the ancestors of David, it was a much broader cultural tradition that existed to preserve family lineage and the patriarchal structure of the society

0

Anonymous #5 1w

i think its insanity to worship ancient writings that fail to consider how society has evolved. i think its insane to base your worth on procreation and who will take care of you when you’re old. i think its insane to be incapable of decision making without consulting a fairytale

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Anonymous #5 1w

My point is not that everything in the Bible is wrong. My point is that the Bible is made up of cultural traditions and stories relevant to the time as a way to explain to people of the time why these traditions exist. If you believe it was written by G-d or man, the fact that it was a product of its time should not change. We are not biblical people. We do not have to value procreation and sanitation in the same ways that they did. To think that we do is archaic

0

Anonymous #11 1w

You would think they would allow their priests to marry. Thats what I was saying about Timothy giving pretty clear direction about how clergy members will have ONE wife (many Christian cults like to argue the polygamy thing as if they are kings 🤦‍♂️) . There’s also a practical element of relating to the congregation on family matters.

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Anonymous #5 1w

The priests in a catholic church arent allowed to marry because celibacy is a matter of discipline. A pope could change it, however the rule is deeply rooted in theology and tradition.

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Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Did God not strike down Onan for not completing the task? I don’t reckon it was Judah doing the smiting. He may have been the messenger but you’re onto something here about the mystery surrounding the bloodlines I have yet to solve. There’s something about the female side of each of these lines that’s very important. The geneticists say mitochondrial DNA is strictly from the mothers side (unless there’s an update on that which hasn’t reached me yet)

-1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Societies that don’t value procreation are doomed to dwindle into nothingness. That doesn’t take advanced math to see the calculus function results in an approach to zero for societies that don’t repeat behaviors that replicate people/skills necessary to maintain and grow civilization.

-1

Anonymous #11 1w

Would be beneficial if one did. It’s a major point of contention for many who would normally become Catholic/support the church.

-1

Anonymous #5 1w

Technically if you remain a permanent deacon you can be both clergy in the catholic church as well as a married man. However I feel beyond that would be difficult as the role of clergy from priest upward is very demanding.

1

Anonymous #5 1w

I never said that we don’t have to value procreation at all, I said that we don’t have to value it in the same way that they did. What that means is that the point of everyone’s life does not have to be to have children. There are so many children in foster care and the adoption system and so many people who can’t properly take care of their children who are pressured into having children, which leads those children to grow up with a lot of mental health issues

1

Anonymous #5 1w

I believe that every parent needs to give their children a nurturing and loving home and should be able to provide for all of their mental and physical needs, and it is literally impossible for everyone on earth to be at the level where they can do that

1

Anonymous #5 1w

It’s not a mystery. They believed that the wife was attached to that household now, and she was bound by law to provide that household a firstborn son. Any male from that household could’ve impregnated her to conceive Er’s children, it was about her being property of the household. Not at all empowering for women or our dna.

4

Anonymous #1 1w

Okay buddy let’s walk away from the comment section, seems you’re getting confused

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Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Pray do tell where all this power women has comes from? Do you feel powerful? Just because people say a woman is “empowered” does it make it so?

-1

Anonymous #17 1w

Ngl me being a Christian has little impact on my views of LGBTQ stuff. My views stem a lot more from how annoying certain people and events are than how I view them morally

0

Anonymous #9 1w

As a Christian, I just want to say we are not worshipping ancient writings, we worship Jesus who was sent by God to save us from sin. Scripture helps us to learn about who God is and what he says, but at the root we worship Jesus for who he is and thank him for his word separately.

3

Anonymous #9 1w

Stories that survive thousands of years do so for a reason. There’s a utility in understanding the underlying message. Sometimes they are cautionary tales, sometimes they contain deep wisdom, and it would appear, fairy tales or not, the societies that heeded those lessons, outperformed those that did not.

3

Anonymous #5 1w

I have no idea what you are saying. what I meant is I personally do not look to these stories as empowering because I think a woman being property of a household and being required by law to bear her dead husbands children is dehumanizing to women.

6

Anonymous #17 1w

Like if someone is annoying, I’m not gonna like them regardless of their skin color, sexuality, gender, etc lol not because I’m discriminating against them, they’re just annoying and it is what it is

0

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

We all serve something, be it a household, business, family, government. I choose God. But if you believe just because you aren’t subservient to God, you aren’t being subservient to anything, and that the Government/Private Sector are empowering you, as your brother through a God you might not put your faith in, I would hope you examine the deal your getting from whatever you’re serving. I’ve found the organizations of this world talk a big game, but don’t deliver on the power they promise.

-2

Anonymous OP 1w

I see…so you read and did what your RELIGION told you to do rather than learning what’s true and seeking gods heart deeply out of WANT to

-4

Anonymous OP 1w

That’s why I’m not religious I just love Jesus 🫡 it’s a distraction from the one truth of Jesus paid the price and we must obey!

-4

Anonymous #5 1w

I do believe in G-d. I’m a reform Jew. We put value in questioning our faith and thinking critically about it as opposed to just taking the Bible as fact. Again, the Bible is a product of its time meant for the people of its time. Just because the individual stories may not be true doesn’t mean that we can’t still study it and think about what it means in terms of our CURRENT social reality, where people have more choice about the kinds of things they want to commit their life to.

4

Anonymous #5 1w

I commit my life to being a kind person and thinking critically about the kinds of things I interact with. I have my own moral compass and I do it without listening to what the Bible says because I know inherently it’s wrong to kill people and be unkind, because I have empathy.

13

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

SHHHHHH THEY DONT LIKE THE TRUTH AND WILL HATE YOU😭

14

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

The laws of the Torah are still relevant today. Especially those given to the levites through the tabernacle. I’ve found the further you get from the source of God’s communication, the more caveats humans have introduced, the worse the results are long term. Rapid short term gains rarely lead to long term “sustainability”. Christians seem to be facing a similar problem Jew’s do with the more recent a religious leader, the more caveats they introduce, the more they say the wisdom from the 1/2

-1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

2/2 tabernacle can be ignored. You’re right in the sense things are going to be different than the times of Israel’s conquest out of Egypt to the promised land, but to completely disregard things like diet, behavior, law, and not examine what following those patterns yields or does not yield, is a level of hubris that results in disaster. Intelligent people can make it sound appealing, but wise, it is not.

-1

Anonymous #5 1w

You are still missing my point. My point is that people are entitled to believe what they wish to believe but it is unreasonable and unrealistic to think that everyone needs to abide by the same life standards that people did thousands of years ago, and that you don’t have to rely on those standards to be a good person

14

Anonymous #9 1w

You either believe in God or you don’t. If you want to believe in nothing and be miserable, do not drag others there with you. If someone believes eternal salvation comes from their God, who are you to try to stop that. I believe in a God who created all things, including distractions and temptations. Jesus is Lord. I believe in life after death.

-1

Anonymous #20 1w

Yes but it says to judge with righteousness that doesn’t mean boast that doesn’t mean I’m better than anyone else, love really means guide people to Christ

1

Anonymous #7 1w

Catholic here: the original translation is about pederasty, yes. It has only been changed in the last century or so.

14

Anonymous #13 1w

…yet they don’t.

11

Anonymous #4 1w

i find comfort in knowing that i can exist without needing an imaginary friend to guide me. i’m also extremely happy and successful with my life as it is, i think you must be the miserable one

9

Anonymous #22 1w

Sex before marriage is a sin. Many Christians wait until marriage before having sex, I know many like this. Some make exceptions for sex and this is not supposed to happen. People are weak and prone to lust. It’s human nature and it’s really hard to fight, speaking from personal experience. It’s hard to say no.

1

Anonymous #1 1w

You gotta get your head checked

10

Anonymous #8 1w

Yeah, but Christians/Catholics are not that hardcore about the sins of hating sex before marriage or the sin of adultery as they are about hating the sin of homosexuality. Why is that?

16

Anonymous #26 1w

having sex*

4

Anonymous #21 1w

I know, some don’t , and that is what is scaring me as a Christian

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Attempting to not lie, cheat, steal, not sleep with anyones wife, etc, are the foundational standards for a stable civilization. You’re right. You don’t have to abide by those standards, you have free will, and as one mildly drunk, but surprisingly wise kid with great hair said “There are no rules, only consequences”

1

Anonymous #5 1w

You are still not understanding my point. My point is that someone could have never heard of the Ten Commandments and still know that those things are wrong, because the concept of those things being wrong had been around since before the Bible existed. Human beings don’t want to naturally be mean to each other and you don’t need a book to have empathy. Your entire worldview is based around the Bible because you believe you can’t be a good person without it. Maybe you’re just not a good person.

1

Anonymous #5 1w

AND my point is that the Bible also has a ton of things in it that would be insane to live by today and people can choose themselves whether they want it to guide their life or not

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

The Torah and commandments predate the Bible. “Civilization” prior did not appear to be very “civil” in ancient Egypt.

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Also don’t pretend to claim to know what my worldview is less you possibly be cursed with sharing it. I have seen things in this world with my own eyes that would make you wish to not live anywhere near other humans.

1

Anonymous #5 1w

The Torah is considered part of the Biblical canon. When I say the Bible I am referring to all of it and you should know that since the original conversation on the post is referring to Leviticus 18:22 as part of the Bible. And ancient Egypt was not the only civilization that existed prior to the Bible.

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Any of them seem civil to you? Worshiping false idols? Sacrificing human blood to false gods?

1

Anonymous #5 1w

Many ancient civilizations had laws against adultery and murder and how to worship their own gods. And the Bible also permits many things that we consider barbaric, like total slaughter of many populations, slavery, and even though child sacrifice is outlawed there is a story where someone sacrifices his daughter and it is totally fine because he promised G-d he’d do it

1

Anonymous #5 1w

In the Torah, blood is ritual detergent. Many would bathe themselves in animal blood to make themselves pure again.

1

Anonymous #5 1w

I have my own trauma. I’ve lived through my own horrors and I believe in G-d because that is what is right for me. He didn’t save me when I was almost dead. I am here solely because of myself. You have no right to police what other people get to believe.

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

The translation and choice to use the word slavery appears to be a gross inaccuracy. Even today, most people are indentured/indebted to corporations longer than six years, do not get paid daily, sure as heck not enough to own their own land. There are no real physical protections for workers that yield any truly meaningful consequences over time. We live in labor conditions that violate the labor laws translated with the word “slavery” in Deuteronomy.

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

I provide recommendations based on the word of God, I force nothing upon people other than explaining the long term consequences of forgoing the guidance God provided. You have free will. Do as you wish. But bear the consequences of your own decisions.

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

And it’s possible you know a verse about the girl who was “sacrificed” I don’t. I’m of the impression she was sent into religious service rather than actually killed, but it’s entirely possible we are reading different versions of the text.

1

Anonymous #5 1w

slavery doesn’t only occur in deutoronomy. I was actually thinking about the surrogate slave women in genesis who are forced to bear children that aren’t theirs

1

Anonymous #5 1w

In Judges, Jephthah vows that if he defeats the Ammonites in battle he will sacrifice the first thing he sees when gets home and it turns out to be his daughter. She spends two months mourning her virginity and preparing and then comes back and he sacrifices her

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

You’re right. It happens under the Egyptian Pharaoh prior to the construction and guidance given through the tabernacle.

1

Anonymous #5 1w

No it doesn’t. Genesis happens long before Egypt has even started. This is in the time of Abraham.

1

Anonymous #5 1w

Avram and Sarai can’t have children, so Hagar is forced to, and the same thing happens with Jacob/Leah/Rachel

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Please refresh my memory, does it say she was forced to? Does it indicate she volunteered or does it specify at all between the two? I genuinely don’t recall. But I reckon I should have remembered if it said she was forced to bear the children. There’s a whole thing in Deuteronomy later talking about rape that’s translated from two different ancient Hebrew words, in English, they use rape for both, but in ancient Hebrew, I believe it’s Deuteronomy 25ish that indicates a women out away from the 1

1

Anonymous #5 1w

/2 from the estate, encounters a man, they have sex, he is put to death but she is blameless. Then there’s a part about her calling out for help following that which is an indication of forcible rape (likely where they got the concept for common law later) As opposed to how it’s described three verses later which was a different ancient Hebrew word, implying sex before marriage was to result in those who had sex, would then be formally married afterwards, implying because there was no call 1/

1

Anonymous #5 1w

2/2 call for help, the consummation was consensual. Again, two different words in ancient Hebrew, both translated to “rape” in English for some reason, two different punishments.

1

Anonymous #5 1w

I appreciate what you’re trying to do but I think all you’re proving is that the Bible contradicts itself over and over and over again

1

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Well there’s a mystery to be solved here and despite any illusion of opposition between us, I rarely encounter someone else who’s studied the scripture (you would think more people would ACTUALLY READ IT) So I genuinely do appreciate the conversation. 🫡

1

Anonymous #5 1w

I highly encourage you to take a class on the Hebrew Bible and research the documentary hypothesis on your own time

6

Anonymous connie_lingus 1w

Seems like a productive use of my time. I likely will.

3